Curse

Mirra The Restorer · Aug 21, 2005, 12:19 AM // 00:19

This is all so hilarious to me. I never read about anyone complaining of 'broken' pro bond until this build surfaced to the general public. Pro bond is NOT broken. Easily removed if you know what you are doing in PVP. For anyone to complain about someone using this build in PVE is really really silly. Why do you care? Cause they are richer than you? PVP is the only instance where a skill might be 'broken' because you are competing againt other actual persons,but in this case it just ISNT. Imbalanced? maybe but i still dont think so, a simple strip does it--how can you call something removable broken?? Try playing some MTG for experience with truly BROKEN spells. This just doesnt make the cut so I have to write it off as jealousy. Broken means something very serious so don't be throwin the term around if you dont know what you are talking about.

Theos · Aug 21, 2005, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirra The Restorer

This is all so hilarious to me. I never read about anyone complaining of 'broken' pro bond until this build surfaced to the general public. Pro bond is NOT broken. Easily removed if you know what you are doing in PVP. For anyone to complain about someone using this build in PVE is really really silly. Why do you care? Cause they are richer than you? PVP is the only instance where a skill might be 'broken' because you are competing againt other actual persons,but in this case it just ISNT. Imbalanced? maybe but i still dont think so, a simple strip does it--how can you call something removable broken?? Try playing some MTG for experience with truly BROKEN spells. This just doesnt make the cut so I have to write it off as jealousy. Broken means something very serious so don't be throwin the term around if you dont know what you are talking about.

You didn't read the thread did you? Or did you read the first and last pages? A simple strip has already been beaten to death and proven as not the right answer. The bond as stated by several people (and given great examples by two people) is broken.

You all go for the simple answer... sorry the answer is obvious the skill is broken.

Elistan Theocrat · Aug 21, 2005, 12:23 AM // 00:23

-back from a nice nap.

For those who whined about grind in this game, lets not turn this into another UAS thread ok? And seriously, ROFL @ Grind complaints. Go back to quake or wherever you came from if you think the grind is so terrible in GW.

For anyone else who asked, I never stated that solo monks in UW hurts me particularly in any way. I was set up properly before monks became like penisroaches (sorry wont let me say RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO) so no I didnt have to spend huge amounts of money, but its not like they help anybody or anything but themselves, which is lame. The pure simple fact of the matter is that Protbond is broken and that build is an exploit, thus it should be fixed. It doesnt get more complicated than that.

Oh and I do bitch about runners blue, but thats for a different thread. Hell when I'm bored I have a fun little game where I get into a runners group and let them get about halfway across the zone then zone back into wherever we started from and play all innocent, "what? how did that happen? Oh, me? Are you sure??" just to see how many times I can do it before they finally go "to hell with this" and quit. The record is 5.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirra The Restorer

This is all so hilarious to me. I never read about anyone complaining of 'broken' pro bond until this build surfaced to the general public. Pro bond is NOT broken. Easily removed if you know what you are doing in PVP. For anyone to complain about someone using this build in PVE is really really silly. Why do you care? Cause they are richer than you? PVP is the only instance where a skill might be 'broken' because you are competing againt other actual persons,but in this case it just ISNT. Imbalanced? maybe but i still dont think so, a simple strip does it--how can you call something removable broken?? Try playing some MTG for experience with truly BROKEN spells. This just doesnt make the cut so I have to write it off as jealousy. Broken means something very serious so don't be throwin the term around if you dont know what you are talking about.

Sigh, man I'm really getting tired of having to repeat myself, I know four whole pages of posts is alot of material to expect the averge person to read, (sad) but I dont see how you think you can talk to me about what I dont know when you make a post on the thread with and OBVIOUS lack of knowledge about the conversation at hand. But here goes, I'll repeat myself just for you, feel special.

I'm not jealous.

I dont care how much money they make.

I'm a monk too.

I could do this ALL day too if I so desired.

We're not talking about pvp, because obviously the odds of no opponent with
debuffs are astronomical.

we've conversed about the fact that removal stops the build, and also about how removal is not the answer for pve play, unless you really want disenchant mobs EVERYWHERE, of course, you sound like youre one of the uas pvp only folks so I dont expect you to give a damn about pve.

Yes, if you fix this exploit, monks will probably go solo someplace else, but it wont be UW where no other class has a chance at doing it. And please, if all these people really wanted to solo for the fun of it, or to get away from people they could go to any of those places that arent UW to do it. Its greed pure and simple that causes there to be a god damned monk convention at greneth every time we're within 1 win of favor. Its disgusting.

So now that youre up to speed, I'd hope that you'd read whats going on before you tell anyone else what they dont know again.

Sainte · Aug 21, 2005, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorlin

Sainte, if you'd have my experience with getting a superior to drop (not a single one in over 400 hours of play) you'd not be so eager to see the rune trader go.

It's easy to ask for the elimination of something in the game if -you- don't need it.

I unlocked all Monk runes, 1/2 the Mesmer/Necro/Elem/War just by killing monsters.

Id love to see the trader go >.> It killed the Rune economy.

Serpreme · Aug 21, 2005, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Hey look instead of 3-4 paragraphs...
I payed for the game to play it how i want.
Fin.

LifeInfusion · Aug 21, 2005, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by SOT

If you are unsuccessfully soloing as any class type/matchup other than monk, I seriously question your ability to play the game well. My very first character was a ranger mesmer, and she soloed fine up to Lion's Arch without any help or input from whiners, bitchers, griefers, scammer,gangsta's, or internet tough guys.

You didnt solo in the sense of the word we are talking about. He is talking about SOLO as in without henches, just you.

Theos · Aug 21, 2005, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

You didnt solo in the sense of the word we are talking about. He is talking about SOLO as in without henches, just you.

Well there is a point in what SOT said, every class can solo. You just need to know the locations for soloing for each class. The following list is based only prime class.

-Monks: Currently everywhere that there is no enchant removal (broken).
-Warriors: Any non anti melee/enchant/mesmer area. Also non elemental spike damage areas.
-Mesmer: Anywhere abundant with casters and lots of walls. I'd say Mursaat, as the effects of SA is easily countarable once infused. Not sure about melee.
-Ranger: Anywhere with alot of elemental damage, such as imps or grown up ice golems.
-Necro: Perdition and all of Fire Island Chain.
-Ele: Go super ER ele and you can farm everywhere. (that lacks interupts and removal)

LifeInfusion · Aug 21, 2005, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

I don't think anyone bitches about all the identicle running builds, or every stupid W/Mo that uses the same tanking build, or every fire ele that uses the same firestorm, meteor shower, lava font build...

I beg to differ. I complain about all of those. That's why I am not fire ele. or w/mo

Calrisian Nantos · Aug 21, 2005, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

you sound like youre one of the uas pvp only folks so I dont expect you to give a damn about pve.

No,He never plays pvp,he's a friend of mine and we are all pretty much strictly pve,and one does not have to read this entire thread to know what he's talking about,even though I have read it through,I still cant even begin to stress any of the points I feel are valid as to why pb isnt broken because I would rather not add to a pointless seemingly endless debate,all I'll say is I am very happy with Anet and the job they do,If I had one complaint it would be how easy I hear of good people getting scammed by childeren who figure out trade glitches and how even if they have screens they still pretty much screwed and the kids keep on scamming,why not worry about the wellbeing of the players and not some stupid build /rant

Elistan Theocrat · Aug 21, 2005, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theos

Well there is a point in what SOT said, every class can solo. You just need to know the locations for soloing for each class. The following list is based only prime class.

-Monks: Currently everywhere that there is no enchant removal (broken).
-Warriors: Any non anti melee/enchant/mesmer area. Also non elemental spike damage areas.
-Mesmer: Anywhere abundant with casters and lots of walls. I'd say Mursaat, as the effects of SA is easily countarable once infused. Not sure about melee.
-Ranger: Anywhere with alot of elemental damage, such as imps or grown up ice golems.
-Necro: Perdition and all of Fire Island Chain.
-Ele: Go super ER ele and you can farm everywhere. (that lacks interupts and removal)

Yep, anyone can solo if they know where to do it. Yet, only monks can solo in UW, and if it werent based on greed and was instead predicated on one of the false pretenses forwarded in this thread (payback, sick of players, blah blah blah) then who would care if they lost the ability to solo UW and had to do it elsewhere??

The biggest problem is indeed what ensign said about the fact that the game doesnt reward group play appropriately, that having been said, I still hold to the issue that the only way to deal with that singular borked skill is removal, its unbalanced and needs fixing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by serpreme

Hey look instead of 3-4 paragraphs...
I payed for the game to play it how i want.
Fin.

Yes well as excellent as that contribution was, it doesnt address the fact that the 105/55 is an exploit and needs to be fixed. Congrats, play how you want, enjoy the exploit while it lasts if you want, after anet fixes the exploit you can find all kind of other ways to play the way you want.

Theos · Aug 21, 2005, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Yes, I agree with Ensign on the idea that team play needs more rewards. Perhaps as was stated in this thread, or I believe, a more dynamic drop of items based on players present or atleast some reward for doing things with a group and playing some of the missions again.

I find my self going to help people do Hell's and Abbadon's sadly the only rewards are some average drops and a little money, which I can easily go squeeze from endless imps outside of Marhaan's. I will say however that the sheer joy of helping someone complete some of the harder missions is always fun.

Edit: Wanted to add:

-Monk Farming If 105/55 is Nerfed: Anywhere without enchant removal or places with undead, minus UW now. Look at that astounding difference. All of one thing changed.

Leddy · Aug 21, 2005, 01:59 AM // 01:59

I think all of you are using a bad argument.

The real problem is that IT IS POSSIBLE TO BE INVINCIBLE. Doesn't matter how you can get rid of that invincibility, it shouldn't be possible in any MMORPG to be completely, utterly invincible without a major penalty.

Strip the enchantment you say. Not all PvE monsters can remove enchantments, and when you can just chew through a level 28 mob by yourself its just not funny anymore. No other class can do that.

The 105 combo ruins ArenaNet's entire "Skill is the key" mantra. When i can just pay for a bunch of runes and then laugh as i leave my monk in UW and go to sleep, and be able to expect that i am alive tomorrow, you'll know that it wasn't skill that kept you alive, it was an utterly broken combo that was never intended to exist.

Jessy · Aug 21, 2005, 02:05 AM // 02:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elistan Theocrat

... then who would care if they lost the ability to solo UW and had to do it elsewhere?? ...

It's not a question of soloing UW or not, after all, it's the complainers that demanded to

* nerf the monk skill set or specific monk skills

and/or

* place enchantment whackers in all areas suitable for solo monk builds.

So let's call it what it is, this is not about soloing UW, this is about monks going out on their own ANYWHERE.

Leddy · Aug 21, 2005, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessy

It's not a question of soloing UW or not, after all, it's the complainers that demanded to

* nerf the monk skill set or specific monk skills

and/or

* place enchantment whackers in all areas suitable for solo monk builds.

So let's call it what it is, this is not about soloing UW, this is about monks going out on their own ANYWHERE.

I think it's more about monks being invincible and soloing while taking advantage of that invincibility, not the mere fact that they're soloing.

Dragou Du Porzan · Aug 21, 2005, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mourning Air

The point is that it's better to do things that promote group play, rather than to do things that discourage or prevent solo play. It is always nice to have SOME option to solo, even if it were made less worthwhile than grouping, because sometimes you just want to get away from the groups or you don't have the time/patience to gather one up (side comment: there should be a better method of forming groups in this game). Now, you could argue that a place like UW should never be possible to solo either way... but truthfully, I am impressed with the creative builds people came up with to do so.

No offense to some people here, but the constant nerf posts are just sounding more and more like pointless whining. I think it's much more constructive to promote group play and give better rewards for it.

Of course, this post and others like it will mostly get ignored by the masses screaming "nerf".

For what it's worth, your post wasn't lost on me. In a thread filled with people trying to impose their personal view of the "correct way to play" on others, this post is just about the most sensible one offered up. And as someone who enjoys finding builds that enable me to explore on my own, I completely agree that removing that option to appease a vocal minority is not the best answer. By all means, increase the rewards for groups. People who were in it for the cash will gravitate back to groups, and people like me who just enjoy having fun solo can continue to do so without being labeled an "exploiter", a "greedy milker", a "flavor of the month sheep", or whatever other nasty bile those who get so worked up about this can dredge up.

Leddy · Aug 21, 2005, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Promoting group play eh? I think NCSoft know how to do that, as they've shown in their 'other' MMORPG, Lineage 2.

Short guide on how to promote group play:

1. Make it impossible to solo.
2. Make it impossible to solo.
3. Make it impossible to solo.

In L2, it is virtually impossible to solo. We have it easy here. Stop complaining, and if you want to argue, find a good argument.

Oh, and i found this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirra The Restorer

This is all so hilarious to me. I never read about anyone complaining of 'broken' pro bond until this build surfaced to the general public. Pro bond is NOT broken. Easily removed if you know what you are doing in PVP. For anyone to complain about someone using this build in PVE is really really silly. Why do you care? Cause they are richer than you? PVP is the only instance where a skill might be 'broken' because you are competing againt other actual persons,but in this case it just ISNT. Imbalanced? maybe but i still dont think so, a simple strip does it--how can you call something removable broken?? Try playing some MTG for experience with truly BROKEN spells. This just doesnt make the cut so I have to write it off as jealousy. Broken means something very serious so don't be throwin the term around if you dont know what you are talking about.

You know, Mirra, this is pretty hilarious to me too. Your argument about people not complaining about prot bond until the build surfaced is like asking someone to complain about a leaky roof without the roof actually leaking water. How are they meant to complain about something if they don't know what it can be used for, or what it can do?

And that strip argument has been beaten to death, i won't even comment on it.

As for playing MTG, yes, i used to play MTG. MTG's Type 1 format still is pretty broken.

Sainte · Aug 21, 2005, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leddy

Promoting group play eh? I think NCSoft know how to do that, as they've shown in their 'other' MMORPG, Lineage 2.

Short guide on how to promote group play:

1. Make it impossible to solo.
2. Make it impossible to solo.
3. Make it impossible to solo.

In L2, it is virtually impossible to solo. We have it easy here. Stop complaining, and if you want to argue, find a good argument.

Oh, and i found this:

You know, Mirra, this is pretty hilarious to me too. Your argument about people not complaining about prot bond until the build surfaced is like asking someone to complain about a leaky roof without the roof actually leaking water. How are they meant to complain about something if they don't know what it can be used for, or what it can do?

And that strip argument has been beaten to death, i won't even comment on it.

As for playing MTG, yes, i used to play MTG. MTG's Type 1 format still is pretty broken.

BS, I managed to solo almost any area in L2 on my 56 Necro, owning up red mobs without problems. I quit after because I could do it with my eyes closed, click, click, click, click, find next target, click, click, click, click, find next target and so on.

Guild Wars is quickly turning into those toddler games where the game pretty much gives you 0 options in where you want to go or what you want to do. You cant farm, you cant group because there is no point, exploring areas is useless if they dont have towns there, Trading is retarded, gaining skills can only be achieved by lame rewarded faction, or making 3 chars and going through the game 3 times.

Phades · Aug 21, 2005, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Heh linage is a poor example for a game that promotes group play. Look to FFXI, DAOC, or even EQ2 for stronger examples of group play. Heh, in FFXI its actually ramped up so that you really cant do much alone at all beyond farming very low end creatures compared to your primary job level.

Leddy · Aug 21, 2005, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sainte

BS, I managed to solo almost any area in L2 on my 56 Necro, owning up red mobs without problems. I quit after because I could do it with my eyes closed, click, click, click, click, find next target, click, click, click, click, find next target and so on.

Guild Wars is quickly turning into those toddler games where the game pretty much gives you 0 options in where you want to go or what you want to do. You cant farm, you cant group because there is no point, exploring areas is useless if they dont have towns there, Trading is retarded, gaining skills can only be achieved by lame rewarded faction, or making 3 chars and going through the game 3 times.

Go fight a real monster in L2, you'll die like an ass. There are monsters that you can't solo with level 75's.

Leddy · Aug 21, 2005, 03:06 AM // 03:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Heh linage is a poor example for a game that promotes group play. Look to FFXI, DAOC, or even EQ2 for stronger examples of group play. Heh, in FFXI its actually ramped up so that you really cant do much alone at all beyond farming very low end creatures compared to your primary job level.

I used L2 because GW and L2 were developed by the same company.